Broken engine :( Advice, please.

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by alez, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Hi, All.

    Our repair garage has just given us the news that our 2 litre Type 4 engine is broken. Apparently one cylinder has low compression.

    Their next step is to obtain a cost estimate from a specialist who would replace the engine with a rebuilt one, with 2-year warranty, keeping our current one.

    We plan to seek one additional cost estimate for the same task, from another specialist we know of.

    Since this is big bad news and we're unexperienced, we'd appreciate pretty much any comments you may have (general advice, opinions, ideas, past experiences, possible alternatives, etc.)

    Also, I have a few specific questions I've wondering about:

    -Our camper is a '78 from California featuring electronic engine management as stock. I think European ones used carbs and points. Since this is Spain, I'm most likely to get my engine replaced by a European one. Will the engine management like it? I'm wondering if the engine internals are 100% identical, specially the cams!

    -Our camper used to run fine on unleaded, do you think it's because it got some internals upgraded (valve seats etc.) or should I expect my stock replacement engine to be as fine with regards to this?

    -Due to the above, would it be better for us to ask for our own engine to be rebuilt? (This would take a lot longer than the proposed plan for which I've been quoted around one week.)

    -Is fitting a Subaru engine a real alternative or is it such much bigger job that we should consider it in a totally different dimension?

    -Do we have any alternatives?

    Thanks!
     
  2. As the engine has got to come out anyway, get it out, take the head off the side thats got low compression, its possibly just a valve or valve seat, if thats the case a new head and you could be good to go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
    davidoft likes this.
  3. I just had a conversation with the alternative specialist. They propose to do a full inspection and provide assessment. They said the compression problem may be related to a number of different faults, some minor(ish), some major. In their opinion, some of the possible origins for this problem don't call for engine replacement at all, but for rework. Sounds sensible I guess!
     
    mikedjames, cunny44, Surfari and 3 others like this.
  4. Flakey

    Flakey Supporter

    It may be as simple as a burnt valve or a piston rings worn.
    You should really have someone who knows what they’re looking at take the head off and diagnose the exact problem before you go for a new engine.
    I presume you mean it’s got fuel injection? which will fit on to a replacement engine just fine.
    They all run on unleaded just fine.
    If you are getting someone else to do a Subaru conversion it’s around the £6.5k mark.
     
    snotty likes this.
  5. Yup, that's much in line with the second opinion I just got by phone :) Thanks!
     
  6. Thanks a lot for all the really useful information. Much in line with the advice I just got by phone too. Yes, fuel injected.
     
  7. Where abouts in the world are you?
     
    Pudelwagen likes this.
  8. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    A type 4 running in Spain is likely to suffer from heat and the low compression could be a problem with No.3 exhaust valve or the valve seat – the one that runs hottest. It’s unlikely to need a complete engine exchange, unless the oil light has been flickering, but if it does the simple fuel injection (not engine management) will work fine with a European spec engine. All standard type 4 cams are the same. And all VW air-cooled engines have hardened valve seats and are suitable for unleaded fuel.

    Just out of interest where would your garage obtain a replacement engine in Europe?
     
  9. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    Any specialist who’s first response when faced with low compression is “you need a new engine” isn’t a specialist!
     
    snigofhawson, snotty, Jaimie and 10 others like this.
  10. > A type 4 running in Spain is likely to suffer from heat and the low compression could be a problem with No.3 exhaust valve or the valve seat – the one that runs hottest. It’s unlikely to need a complete engine exchange, unless the oil light has been flickering

    No flickering, and the light is not faulty because it turns on with the engine stopped as it should. When we bought this van, I was really surpirsed that the engine bay seems to stay at a very reasonable temperature no matter what (uphills, hot weather, load, etc.) Maybe I was misled by that, as we have no way of knowing the engine is getting too hot while driving.

    > but if it does the simple fuel injection (not engine management) will work fine with a European spec engine.

    Maybe the term engine management doesn't apply... I meant electronic fuel injection + electronic ignition rather than points.

    > All standard type 4 cams are the same. And all VW air-cooled engines have hardened valve seats and are suitable for unleaded fuel.

    Excellent, thanks.

    > Just out of interest where would your garage obtain a replacement engine in Europe?

    It'd be difficult for me to find out. The swap would be done by a different garage (specialist) and I haven't asked who because my local garage may think I want to contact them direct. Which is a shame because that way I can't find out about the reputation of this alleged specialist, therefore I'm less likely to commission the job with them...
     
  11. I'm note sure who's idea it is to completely replace the engine. Maybe my local garage (not a specialist) directly asked whatever specialist they seem to have contacted for this replacement rather than let them see the van first... But yeah, I very much get your point! Thanks.
     
  12. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    The engine bay and top of the engine will always be cool because there is a constant flow of air being drawn in by the fan, but climbing long hills the cylinder head temp can easily exceed 215degC and the oil 120degC. (I have a similar engine in similar ambient temperature)

    If the problems turns out to be caused by overheating you could have your garage fit cylinder head and oil temperature gauges so you can back off or stop on those long hills if necessary. But don’t stop the engine if it’s hot, let it idle to cool down.
     
  13. The specialist contacted by the local garage is looking less and less like one. In order to provide the local garage with a quotation for the swap, they are asking for the engine description on the van logbook, which is, as it happens, full of mistakes. The engine number is not good enough for them to find out. Or my statement that all 2 litre Type 4 engines are the same. Doh!
     
  14. Useful, thanks!

    I've seen these advertised. Do you have any installed? Are they helpful in practice, then? Thanks!
     
  15. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    I have cylinder head temperature, oil temperature and pressure. And monitor them every time I use the bus.
    You might be surprised how quickly cylinder head temperatures rise on a long climb and how quickly they drop once the engine load is reduced. But oil temp increases very slowly and most of the time it’s too cold (less than 80degC) but on motorways or long climbs when the ambient is high the temp increases and the pressure decreases – the oil cooler is too small if the ambient is above 35degC and the engine load is high.
     
    snotty likes this.
  16. That is very useful, thanks :)
     
  17. GARRICK CLARK

    GARRICK CLARK Sponsor

    Is this still in the van. Check ya tappet clearances
     
  18. ^this, first.
     
  19. GARRICK CLARK

    GARRICK CLARK Sponsor

    tight tappet clearance on exhaust valves = valve stretch.
    Valve stretch will eventually lead to engine destruction as the valve head will fall into the combustion chamber.
     

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