Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barry Haynes, Apr 24, 2019.
Education pathetic . Go live there if you don’t like your fellow people .
lets try a new track since we voted to join the common market what have we lost
our dignity - when inflation was 20% strikes were rife and we had to go to the IMF cap in hand
shipbuilding - ah cheap builds from asia - oh wait there's a possibility the spanish are going to build our navel suppport vehicles
(interesting we bought spanish military vehicles while we shut down Vickerss)
aircraft building - a bit player for the EU
car building - every thing british gone - strange the french and german auto industry is thriving
train building - gone now bring in spanish and german trains
fishing - hardly any british fish landing in british ports
ah we've got the best financial industry - no wait hasn,t it been proposed that all financial institutes should be centralised in frankfurt
do we need to go on?
So in a nutshell anyone who voted to leave is a jockey, I’m so glad there are 17 million 399,999 to keep me company
No, not true, but you must seek the path towards true enlightenment, Grasshopper
Why would any working man think voting for the brexit party is a good thing. It's a Tory elitists group that has hoodwinked the low paid into thinking they're on their side.
It will all come back as if by magic. Don't worry, all those captains of industry that ran the big manufacturing firms of the day while playing golf and guffawing over long lunches at the RAC club are long gone. The empire will soon be back
This thread is going the wrong way, we have asked people to be polite in political threads.
Any more offensive words and it will be deleted.
Why don't we ban politics on this site ..it goes nowhere. politicians are all potential dictators on all party's . they have proven that fact over brexit .
So let dubs sex drugs and rock an roll rule , and we all agree on that .
Probably all seen this before but worth reading again. Not my words but copied and pasted from elsewhere.
Now I can't vouch for its age or truth of content, I am not clever enough to understand the complexities of the politics of brexit, either leave or remain . But it makes you think , well it does me anyway.
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it
Point taken I’ve edited my post,
You're not helping
This list has been debunked, sadly. Kraft foods from the US, for instance, bought Cadbury. EU had nothing to do with it.
But the economics is miserable. We’re in a global marketplace, not just a Euro-one. You could list as many companies who’ve gone to Asia for the simple reason the overall costs there are so much cheaper. Arguably we’d be more protected from Asia within a bloc.
We live in a fantastic country with an expensive welfare system, the NHS etc and our labour costs, consequently, are high by comparison.
Not sure what the answer is but I know it’s not a return to fascism under Farage.
There's also some very strict statutes against raiding of pension funds. Hence all the fuss over BHS and Greene making up the shortfall.
To be fair, JLR Slovakia was a huge backhander by the Skovakian government that went against the EU rule set.
The fact that they've done nothing about it is equally significant.
I don't disagree with the rest, but as stated a long time ago, the EU members have a vote each....that will only work when economies are also equal so France, Germany etc are also loosing jobs to poorer nations. VW and Mercedes have new plants in Slovakia. Savings are given to shareholders whilst non democratic politicians claim this is socialism.
The EU is absoloutely designed to do this, hence they don't mind it being pointed out to them.
However....we do need to pay attention to what we have left, and are capable of, and going it alone with comparatively high wages is going to be nigh on impossible.
It's worth paying attention to AI and automation....many of the shifting jobs will he lost anyway in the next 10 years, or moved to Africa.
If you want a career, be really good at human to human stuff like nursing, care work, medicine or things that require dexterity like gardening or art....things machines are poor at. Accountancy, banking, many admin jobs are going to be smashed to little pieces by automation.
Where does that leave us? Hopefully without a huge brain drain as our brightest are pulled abroad.
The U.K. Needs to stop navel gazing and get good at what we traditionally were good at...inventing things or war.
In the interests of a bit of balance. I hear a lot of remainders band around terms like racist or fascist etc when describing anyone who believes we should leave the EU. It feeds into this narrative that’s been created by them that they are somehow more intelligent, or better informed or just generally nicer people than leave voters. Here is what fascism actually is. It’s got no baring on us leaving the EU and actually you could argue that the controls the EU impose on us are actually more fascist.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy, which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
They are incorrect about JLR Skovakia.
They had earmarked improving current factories and extending the engine plant in Wolverhampton.
What isn't being mentioned is the fact that the Slovakian plant is bigger than all JLR plants combined, including Brazil.
It's capable of taking all current production, if they can't ramp up demand, out of the U.K.
What did the EU do to prevent this, as it vehementially defends Spanish fishermen and French Farmers.
Also, whoever wrote that needs to understand large enterprise funding....Kraft are US owned but levy local borrowing (and therein EU grants to build new factories).
One more thing! We're in a strong economic position right now - low unemployment rates etc. How come, if being a member of the EU is so bad? What has the EU ever done for us, in short (and another failing by politicians has been not to make this understood by everyone: eg centralised cyber-security, workers’ rights, environmental protection way in excess of our pathetic DEFRA)?
Here’s a good piece from the FT that explains how business has and is benefiting, if you’re interested.
The very first article is about how a company was 'saved' by the EU....but actually the funding came from its Japanese parent not the EU at all.
All the EU did was allow export, same as it allowed import of competition.
Credibility lost at the first hurdle of the article tbh.
I'm not anti Europe, just not pro it either.
I won't argue with any of this, large corporations will always act in their own interests.
The thing that galls me about the above list is that it implies the EU "have the knife in for the UK". I don't doubt there's some national rivalry along the lines of "Yes Minister" but portraying this as institutionalised UK bashing and the EU is the root of all our ills is plain wrong.
Speak to any UK University and they will tell you they do very very well from EU grants, probably close to top of the list. Why doesn't the above text mention that?
We may well end up doing that. We did have a ban for a long time then a few threads came and went without too much trouble. Recent ones have shown why they were banned in the first place.
Separate names with a comma.