As anyone actually read the full terms of leaving. Do any of us on here understand the full implications of leaving. How it affects pensions, savings, property abroad, utilities, utilities infrastructure, banking, politics, healthcare, transport, immigration, criminal justice, shipping, fishing, university fees for European students and British students in Europe, national security, Northern Ireland and the people of, company law, cyber law, repatriation.human rights, working rule directives, future employment law.... No, well these are the things being negotiated on our behalf and being scrutinised by parliament. When we have read them or had the full facts we should judge them. The problem is ( and this is how certain parties like it ) most of us posting on here don’t have the full facts or know quite enough about the withdrawal agreement to really make a properly considered judgement. It’s okay having an opinion on leave or remain, but wouldn’t it be nice if they actually told us the full facts or we took time to read them before posting and defending our biases.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-farage-insurance-based-nhs-private-companies Here’s the Conservatives denying they have ANY such plans. So of course you can trust them as they’ve never lied about anything before. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-woody-johnson-matt-hancock-a8940861.html?amp Oh whoops. These guys don’t believe the nhs is safe... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www..../how-tories-plotted-decades-sell-20102171.amp Maybe we could have a TLB outing to see this - out this week? Then make our own minds up. https://undertheknifefilm.co.uk/
I wouldn’t want to argue with you but I don’t agree with you on this at all. From the outset politicians on all sides have voted in this to suit their own, or their parties preference. You’ve got labour MPs in seats that voted to leave refusing to vote for the withdrawal bill as they think they can use the brexit vote to bring down the government. You’ve got Tory MPs refusing to vote for it due to the stupid division on Europe that’s dogged the Tory party for years. You’ve got Lib Dem’s outright refusing to honour the vote cos they reckon it will be a hung parliament and they want to be king makers again. You’ve got the SNP using it as a way to get another vote on independence. You’ve got the DUP using it I’m sure to lever more money out of the torys. I’m afraid very few MPs are voting on this for anything other than what’s best for them politically or their party. I hope come the next elections that all of them loose their seats.
I remember all those years ago when Cameron went to the EU to request some changes to our terms of membership. His request was turned down flat and the outcome was the promised referendum. As I see it, leaving the EU at the time wasn't being considered. We wanted to remain but the EU were inflexible in their rules and power over member states and would not amend their rules for us. The EU fears members leaving especially ones like us which make large financial contributions. They don't want member states to leave and they have put everything they could in our way to discourage us from leaving. Finally, they have made some compromises and a deal is possible. We don't know the content of the deal and we have to trust Parliament to ensure its right for us. Brexit has been a bad divorce where neither party could agree divorce terms and there is no Court to decide a settlement. Husband and wife were entrenched in their demands and without a compromise a divorce cannot be reached.
The problem is the government hasn’t had a big enough majority to get things through as they would like so the whole process gets dragged out. This is an extremely difficult thing to negotiate and the lack of a clear majority was always going to affect the negotiations.
I think it’s been said before on this thread, but that’s democracy at work. It’s unfortunate or fortunate depending on your point of view.
The politicians are paid a lot of money to run this country, if they run a company like this they would’ve been sacked a long time ago. They should get off the fence and sort it, rather than sitting on the fence having votes for this and that that gives them a option of doing nothing they should be forced to make a proper decision. Have a ballet, Deal No deal New referendum revoke article 50 the one with the most votes gets actioned on. At least we can move on and deal with the outcome.
But perhaps I’m just a racist, uneducated, ignorant easily led/easily manipulated Northern a.r.s.e.h.o.l.e who shouldn’t be able to vote. @Jules65 no one else used that type of wording so far on this thread. Could we leave it out please?
Precisely! Don't blame the opposition for being fussy about the terms on which we leave. If you can't command a democratic majority you can't get things entirely your way. I have enjoyed seeing democracy work through these very difficult problems. Parliament's job is to make sure we leave with eyes open and no stone unturned. If that makes a few gung-ho Leavers a bit angry for a while it's a small price to pay. The democratic process will get us there in the end.
Blimey. Does anyone understand the full consequences of staying? Particularly after 3 years of chaos? We'd be the whipping boys of Europe. - Still don't want the Euro? Tough sh*t. - That rebate you used to get? Not anymore you don't. - A veto? Ha ha ha
Disagree almost entirely. Commie Corbyn hates Europe. He will however vote against ANYTHING Johnson proposes, because that's the sort of feckless, chinless, spineless little "man" he is. He's not turning over any stones or ensuring democracy in action: He's just saying "no" to everything in the misguided hope that he'll ride to power on a wave of remainer adulation. If that ever happens, it'll be when the real damage starts....
Could we just have a sensible debate without the vitriolic wording please. Who knows we may find some common ground
The last divorce I went through didn't cost me 33bn at least we can have a whip round so get searching down the back of the sofa
Glad you felt the need to pick with how I said it, rather than what I said. Anyone with half a brain can see that what I said is true.
I’m sorry you fee like that. I just think the bad mouthing of either party is wrong at this stage. We need to move on together and stop using words that inflames people or we will just keep disagreeing.
I don't feel it, it's exactly what you did. Whatever happens, there is going to be rumbling dissent for decades after this. There is no-outcome that won't split the country further.
