Fitting solar from scratch

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by 1973daisey, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. scrooge95

    scrooge95 Moderator and piggy bank keeper

    Having spent last night pondering what and why things have gone wrong with my solar set up, and with the finger pointing more and more towards the panel rather than the control box, I decided to brave the weather this morning. In between the rain showers, I got up and had a proper look at my solar panel - and more importantly the cables underneath it. I specifically bought a panel with a rear junction box because I thought it would be more protected from the elements if it was underneath - and having a roof with ridges which necessitated using built up corners, there was always going to be space for the box underneath.
    I think I may have found my answer.
    Why I didn't see it before, when I received the panel, I do not know. Maybe it didn't look important, or maybe I'm just a bit of an unobservant idiot. Maybe the heat of the summer has caused the sealant to expand and push outwards....
    IMG_1052.JPG
    It would appear there is sealant pushing out from a join in the junction box. I'm going to take a wild punt that this is not good, and that despite being underneath and out of direct rain, atmospheric moisture - coupled with any rain that passes under the panel - will have eventually got inside the junction box. It explains why it all worked fine for the first few months of installation, after all I fitted it at the start of the best summer we've had in decades. And now the heat wave is gone and the rain has returned, low and behold my solar is not working as it did.
    :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
    Sydney, Lasty, paul2590 and 1 other person like this.
  2. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    Easy fix if that is the problem and Photonic Universe should supply a new panel. But they are supposed to be sealed against the weather and my junction boxes are top mounted and have only been wet once – we haven’t had any significant rain since mid-June - and the panels were doing nothing before they were rained on.

    At least Photonic Universe are talking to you, I have sent several messages to Eco Worthy both directly and via Amazon with no response whatsoever.
     
  3. scrooge95

    scrooge95 Moderator and piggy bank keeper

    Yes, they are being helpful, so a thumbs up to Photonic Universe for that. If they will take some responsibility for a duff seal on the junction box I would be happy.
    This must be the answer for me, I'm sure.
    Can't imagine that I would've not noticed this before installation, so I'm going to blame summer heat and expansion, but whether they will agree I'm not 100% confident. Buyer Beware and all that.
    The rear junction box panels aren't made anymore unfortunately - they have gone over to a single cable design. Having set up for two cables, I wouldn't want to change, so will have to go with a front mounted junction box for replacement. Most people have these so I'm not too worried - and at least it will be more noticeable!! It's also now a 110w, so that's a small bonus - and currently on offer with £50 off. Let's hope this is the answer, and I get some recompense.
    Sorry yours doesn't appear to be so simple @77 Westy.
    (I just phoned Photonic Universe. Can you get a number for Eco-Worthy?)
     
    Sydney and theBusmonkey like this.
  4. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    I can’t find their ‘phone number unfortunately, I’ve used the contact page on their website and the Amazon message centre.
     
  5. scrooge95

    scrooge95 Moderator and piggy bank keeper

    Ah yes, they appear to be a slightly larger and more global company than Photonic Universe. I assume they are American? There's a phone number and a direct email address in really small writing at the bottom of their web page, but not much use if it calls the USA. Might be worth using the direct email address though, or did you try that already?
     
  6. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    Yes, it’s a US number and I’m not going to waste my time calling, they won’t have a clue. I’ve tried the email – no response.

    I should have done more homework before I placed an order with them, they’re simply too global and apparently don’t care about a customer with a problem with a couple of panels. All I can do, and have done, is put poor reviews on the Amazon site.

    I certainly won’t buy anything else from Eco Worthy.
     
  7. scrooge95

    scrooge95 Moderator and piggy bank keeper

    Sad. Hopefully you might get a response eventually through Amazon. Good luck.
     
  8. That’s a bit worrying as I have the same panels (and controller) as you except I mounted my panels flush with the roof, with the junction boxes dropped through so all the wiring is under the roof. I didn’t notice anything untoward either when I fitted them, perhaps I should have a proper look at them. I was going to take the cover off and check the panel output during yesterday’s sunshine but unfortunately we had a lunchtime appointment with the pub which made me very sleepy.

    They seem like a reasonable company so hopefully they will reimburse you or give you a replacement.
     
    scrooge95 and Lasty like this.
  9. Razzyh

    Razzyh Supporter

    If they are old as you say (less than 1year) simply put a claim in via amazon for a refund for faulty goods.
     
    77 Westy, scrooge95 and Sydney like this.
  10. Hmm, right so these panels survive both open and short circuit tests, right? Neither seems to kill them.

    So why not check the junction box for shorts and try again? Worth a go?
     
    Razzyh likes this.
  11. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    The panels are now more than a year old but they weren’t when I notified Eco Worthy of the problem.

    I ordered the panels 28th September 2017, I received them 5th October 2017 but I didn’t fit them until June 2018. I notified Eco Worth and Amazon of a problem 18th September 2018. Neither Amazon or Eco Worthy have responded and I’m not expecting them to.

    If I knew how to make a claim for a refund I’d try but how do I ‘simply put a claim in via amazon’?
     
  12. Razzyh

    Razzyh Supporter

    You might be a bit late but just google making a claim for faulty goods on amazon
     
  13. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    Google says ‘To file an A-to-z Guarantee Claim: Go to Your Orders. Locate your order in the list and click File/View Claim.’

    I can buy it again, ask a product question, write a review and hide the order – there is no option to File/View Claim.:)
     
  14. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    In more positive news I’ve learnt a lot about solar panels and controllers over the last few weeks.

    I knew that the panels were unlikely to produce their rated output and I assumed 50% when I calculated what I required. I thought 100w was enough to power a compressor fridge and keep a 100Ah battery topped up so I ordered two 100w panels to obtain 100w from both. What I probably knew but didn’t consider enough was that the slightest shade on one cell of one panel results in greatly reduced output. And most of my camping is done in places that have shade. And when it’s hot the fridge uses more power than anticipated and at least twice what the manufacture claims so two 100w panels probably wasn’t enough.

    I’ve learnt that monocrystalline panels are slightly more efficient compared to polycrystalline but they are more direction sensitive so unless you can always aim the panel at the sun there probably isn’t much difference between the two. I’ve also learnt that panel efficiency decreases with heat but you have to expose them to the sun.

    I knew that MPPT controllers were the ones to go for to get the most out of the panels but their claimed efficiency is optimistic. And manufacturers seem to make them ever more complex with more and more features that for someone like me who simply wants to charge a single battery doesn’t need.

    I don’t want a remote display or be able to monitor the panels on a smart ‘phone (I don’t have one) and I don’t want to connect the controller to a computer, I don’t want to charge two batteries and I don’t want to connect a load that will switch on when its dark – or whatever the load connection is for. All I want is a controller that will get the most out of the panels to charge a battery with no input from me – I don’t care if its sleeping, bulk, float or whatever.

    Anyway, enough, there is still wine in the bottle.
     
    Lasty, Day, paul2590 and 3 others like this.
  15. Did you pay with a credit card?
    If so it might be worth phoning your card company as I’m sure you get some protection
     
    Razzyh likes this.
  16. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    My credit card is linked to my Amazon account so, yes, I paid by credit card but in the overall scheme of things the money isn’t particularly important, annoying nevertheless but the hassle I’d have with Nat West, Amazon and Eco Worthy isn’t worth my time and effort.

    I’m more interested to know why the panels have apparently failed because if/when I replace them I don’t want the same to happen again. As far as I know I have done nothing wrong with the installation, wiring or use and I have no idea why both panels produce almost no power.
     
  17. Razzyh

    Razzyh Supporter

    You only need to put the claim to NatWest. They deal with any other parties
     
  18. I still wonder if there isn't a short in your junction box. If these panels can survive a short via a meter, there's no reason a short in the junction box would be any different, is there?

    A short in the box would seriously confuse the maths in the controller, but might not have actually broken anything. Did you ever get a pops, bangs or smell of the magic smoke getting let out?
     
  19. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    No pops or bangs and I thought Joe Lucas had all the magic smoke. The junction boxes look well sealed and there are no screws so I’d have to force them apart. Not much to lose I suppose almost all the electricery has already leaked out, I’ll attack them tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
    Lasty and Valveandy like this.
  20. Sproggy4830

    Sproggy4830 Supporter

    Wasn't there a change some short time back where things needed to be of a merchantable quality, i know this has been the case or some time , but the changes in law put a common sense head on , for example you wouldn't expect a 20 pence felt tip pen to last more than a year , however a £4000 apple computer should be expected to last more than a year , and i think a figure was up to five years for electrical items
    i would say if you have proof of date of purchase, proof of date of fitting , estimated time in hours of use, the fact you have reported them faulty within the year , i think f you use the above common sense approach you could well be inline for a refund or at least a replacement . Dont let the no reply from the concerned put you off your rights, dont just give them the money - whoever has ever given you money , its hard come by

    https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...f-goods-act#faulty-goods-replaced-or-repaired
     
    3901mick likes this.

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